MUSIC 3-WAY
Written by Jon Wilde, added to Rock Realms 29th March 2010.
What is it actually like these days working within the music industry...or watching it from the outside? We know what we think here at Rock Realms, but what about you? We thought it was about time to get the lowdown from a few people who live and breathe music.
Alex Barbieri, former lead singer with Tango Down, Pete Fry, lead guitarist with FarCry, and Andy Kalenowsky, a long-time music fan, answer questions.
Hi Guys, thanks for taking a moment to answer these questions. Before we go one, I’d probably better a find out a bit about each of you... First of all, could you tell us about your musical history: how you got into music in the first place, how long you’ve been at it, the bands you’ve played with, etc. etc...
Alex: I’ve been singing in rock bands since I was 16 years old, so I’ve been on the long dusty trail about 20 years. Some of your readers may know my voice from the Tango Down album Damage Control, which was my first original album.
Pete: I started playing piano at around 7 years of age or so. After realizing it just wasn't loud enough and I wouldn't be able to sound like the Rolling Stones on it, I kinda gave up. Picked up guitar as a teenager in the early-mid 80's and learned to play what myself and all my friends were listening to at the time, Maiden, Priest, Metallica, etc. I started playing in a band not long after, playing covers of KISS, Def Leppard, W.A.S.P., Twisted Sister, etc. mixed in with our own originals which were also along those lines. From then until the mid-90's I played in bands running the gamut from hard rock to metal to sleaze.
In 1996 after my band at the time imploded, I dropped out of the scene and really didn't even pick up my guitar as much for about 10 years or so, preferring to hang out on message boards with other hard rock lovers. It was through one of these boards (HeavyHarmonies.com to be specific) that John Kivel contacted me, having heard a demo from one of my bands, inquiring if I'd be interested in getting involved in a project. We immediately started putting together what would eventually become FarCry, but in the interim I also ended up being in RocKarma, appearing on "Bring It!" and playing a few shows with them before I left the band in 2009.
Andy: I'm a music fanatic as well as a practicing musician (guitarist). It all started in 1975 when i heard KISS with Rock & Roll All Night on the radio that opened a Pandoras Box introducing me to the world of rock. From that day on I became very passionate about music. I spent most of my youth going to concerts and reading Creem, Circus, Hit Parader, Metal Edge & Rip Magazine wanting to know all the info on my favourite artists...and what new band was coming out that NO ONE had heard of yet.
To this day people still ask me what's upcoming and I love to share that info. I'm always looking to hear the next artist that's gonna rattle my bones and make the hair on the back of my neck stand up. That feeling is what got me into music and keeps me passionately involved in it today. It's my lifeblood as a fan...........
Now the easy bit’s out the way, it’s time to get down to the meat of this chat...talking about the modern musical landscape and its effect on rock music and performers. How does it feel being a musician in 2010? Are you a musician because of the modern landscape, or despite it?
Alex: Neither really. I’m a musician because I love music. Whether or not I use technology, I’d still be writing songs on a piece of paper and singing in bars with an acoustic guitar.
Pete: It's great being a musician, any year, at any time, I feel incredibly lucky to have this creative outlet, and I honestly don't know what I'd do if I didn't. At this time, like in any other time, there are always pros and cons that come with the time period. For instance, back in the day it was difficult and/or expensive to get publicity for your band, but piracy (other than a little cassette trading) was almost non-existent. Now things have made a 180 degree turn with regard to those two issues specifically.
Andy: I play for the pure enjoyment of doing it; it's all about having fun and doing what i enjoy.........20yrs ago it was about being the guys we covered our walls with. Today if you can make one person smile, job well done.
If you could go back and start over, do you think you’d still be where you are now, or knowing what you now know would you have done things differently? Would you still be a musician?
Alex: If I could go back, I would do some things differently, so I’m sure I would be somewhere different. I’d write more songs and be more insistent on how I wanted the band to be - less willing to just go along. For better or worse, it would be my vision.
Pete: I think I would definitely take more chances if I did it again. Instead of passing up opportunities to get involved with a new project, dropping everything and going out and tour and deciding to play it safe, I think I would give those things a go.
The biggest change now over days of yore has got to be the ease-of-ownership of computers and access to the internet. What are the positives and negatives from the artist’s perspective?
Alex: From the artist’s perspective, the up side is you are able to reach a lot more people much faster with your music. I love getting messages from all over the world, like my friend KH in Southeast Asia. He wrote to me one day on Facebook and said, “Hey, your album rocks.” We’ve been in touch ever since. The down side is I think people are less patient, less willing to buy a CD and and listen to the whole album and stare at the artwork and read the liner notes. When I was growing up, I’d stare at Maiden albums for hours. It was a very tactile experience. Shout at the Devil was a right of passage, man!
Pete: The biggest positive aspect for me by far (as a self-admitted Facebook junkie) is the ability for me to reach out to so many of my fans and potential fans immediately and simultaneously. It also makes it a lot more personal, and it's great to be able to actually speak directly to your fans and hear what's on their mind.
Unfortunately the internet's also made it much easier for people to download/share your music without paying for it. An upside to that obviously is that more people will be exposed to it, but at the price of a lower perceived value. I know when I buy a band's product, I own it and purchased it with my hard earned $, so it's something I will be sure to know as much as I can about it. I can read the liner notes, and I feel like I'm part of something.
When you're out downloading somebody else's property for free, it doesn't mean as much and may not get the attention it deserves. That is aside from the fact that somebody worked hard to write, play and produce something - not to mention paying for it - and is not able to recoup their costs. We're not even talking about reaping huge rewards and taking home massive profits, we're talking about getting back what you put into it. There is a reason the term "starving musician" exists...
What's your take on Pro Tools and digital recording compared to analog tape etc.?
Alex: Again, pros and cons. Albums today sound awesome, but also lack some of the organic appeal of 20 years ago. As for recording, it’s easier to punch in and drag and drop parts, but it’s easy to get lazy, to not sing the chorus twice, and have the song end up sounding repetitive. Kudos to bands like Queen and Def Leppard for all the work their put into their albums. And they sound great today.
Pete: I'm a huge fan of digital recording and Pro Tools in general. I recorded many a demo tape back in the days of analog and it was quite difficult. Pro Tools and the like make things much easier to change, repair, etc. The balance that is required of course is in getting the best possible final product without taking the heart and soul of the musicians involved out of it through over-tweaking. Like anything else, it's a double edged sword.
Is making music easier now...and is it more fun now?
Alex: I would say it is easier. I listened to a podcast with Bill Leverty from Firehouse and he was talking about how much time was wasted in the studio just waiting for the reel to reel tape to rewind. Then the pressure was ON once it was rolling. Now, it’s easier to do things over (which I like because I’m a Virgo perfectionist). I think the fun aspect has more to do with the project and who you’re working with rather than the technology or the year.
Pete: It is definitely easier now as mentioned in the answer above, easier to get good instrument sounds, easier to fix a minor flub in an otherwise perfect performance and that sort of thing. Because of this I would say it's definitely been more fun for me. It's great being able to focus on the creative aspect as opposed to the technical portion.
Apart from the piracy issue (which we’ll get onto later), what difference do you think computers and the internet have made for fans?
Alex: I think it’s great for the fans to have easier access not just to music, but to interviews and the artists themselves. I’m a fan of melodic hard rock and I’ve discovered so many great bands as a result of burning and trading CDs. But again, for young fans, I think they’re missing a whole awesome dynamic of album art and the mystery and romance of reading an article in Circus or Kerrang magazine and then going to see the band live.
Pete: Fans now have immediate access to a band's public face, including music, photos, videos, blogs through a variety of sources from the anything goes social networks (Facebook, MySpace) to the more specific (MelodicRock.com, HeavyHarmonies.com, MamasFallenAngels.com). As I mentioned before it also allows the fans to have a much closer relationship with the bands, be it seeing what they're doing day to day (i.e. "Pete is over-caffeinated"), to participating in message board threads with the artists themselves, and sometimes even IM with the artists.
Andy: Coming from a fan's point of view, the internet has been the gateway into a spectacle of music. Today, at least 80% of the artists I listen to I've found out about either through the internet or a friend. It's the information super highway into music and whatever your musical taste desires you can find it there.
How do you think the rock fan base has evolved since the heady days of the 1980s? Do rock fans ever evolve or are we really all hairy ape types?
Alex: A lot of Hard Rock and metal fans are intelligent, discerning people unwilling to accept the pop drivel that’s shoved down our throats (at least in the States). And I think kids are smarter and savvier than ever. They know if something rocks or sucks, and I’m proud to say Tango Down had a lot of young fans – at least when I was in the band.
Pete: Just as much now as then, there's a wide spectrum of fan types, depending on a variety of factors like age group and specific genre to name a few. Most noticeable though is probably the ones that have been in it for a while tend to change (myself included) as you get older. Life changing events (marriage/divorce, children, jobs), priorities and perspectives can change quite a bit. Maybe you're not going to go out and see bands three nights a week anymore, but maybe you make more money so you'll fly halfway around the world to see a festival featuring bands that don't often play in your neck of the woods.
Andy: The rock fan base has become more united since the 1980s, Then it was all about the lifestyle, now it's all about the music. Rock fans definitely evolve but you like what you like no matter what it may be.
Is starting a new band nowadays based on different criteria to a few decades ago? Do you think the whole foundation of creativity has been lost?
Alex: I’m not sure. I think in the 80s it was more about “making it,” rather than creating great music. Now, I do it purely for the love of rock music and writing songs and recording them in the studio and playing live; hopefully making people happy as a result.
Pete: Every situation is different, and that's one thing that hasn't changed. Much like back in the day, maybe your band calls all the shots, maybe one individual in particular, or maybe it's your label, maybe the producer, or maybe a combination of all or some of these things. As far as creativity being lost, absolutely NOT, and if that ever exits the picture, I'm out. I am just as, if not more creative a writer and a musician as I was back in the day, but now I'm able to draw on years of experience both as a fan and as musician to hone my creative edge even further.
Andy: The sad part is these days most clubs want cover bands. Venues for artists doing original material are next to none.
What are the goals of the average rock band now in comparison to 20 or 30 years ago?
Alex: SEE PREVIOUS ANSWER
Pete: I think most of us are just happy to be putting out material, and finding audiences to play in front of. I know I am!
Is it still realistic entering the rock field in search of money, or do you have to approach it purely from for enjoyment...and hope the money comes later?
Alex: Unless you’re an established act that reforms to tour and make some money, I do not think anyone should form a band to try and make money. If you don’t love it, there’s too little money and too much bullshit to put up with.
Pete: I think that really depends on what you're willing to do and how much you're willing to sacrifice. There are some bands out there that are playing major shows and touring regularly and seem to be doing alright. But they seem to be either newer bands playing the current rock style, or they're veteran rockers that still have a large following from back in the day. Personally I approach it from the enjoyment factor, and I'm really happy to not have to put money out of pocket!
Andy: If you're in it for the money..........find another source of income.
How can you realistically make a living in the rock industry these days? Is it all about session work, ad jingles etc., or are there other/better ways?
Alex: I think a lot of bands just play live and tour to make money. Ticket sales and merch. The CD promotes the tour, opposite of back in the day.
Pete: I would agree with that, the musicians I know who are actually making a living pretty much cover all the bases, lessons, session work, jingles, cover band gigs, you name it. That being said, I'm not sure how different that is from back in the day, as much as people seem to say it, it's not like EVERY band got a sweet record deal, although more so than now. There were still a ton of bands that never even made it to releasing an album and/or getting signed. It's a tough business and not everyone makes the cut, nothing new about that IMO.
Are you personally able to make a living from your music and musicianship?
Alex: No, not unless I was willing to sing “Celebrate” by Kool and the Gang on a cruise ship every night. Then I could make a few dollars. And probably have some fun too.
Pete: Haha (We'll take that as a no then...Ed)
Members of bands used to be as big as the bands themselves. Is there still such a thing as a rock star?
Alex: I’m not so sure. I think the days of the awe-inspiring rock star ala Nikki Sixx or Rob Halford are gone. With reality shows and the Internet, the mystery is gone. We used to wait a year for these bands to come around with nothing more than a magazine to learn about them. That created a lot of anticipation and fantasy that fuelled the rock star persona.
Pete: I think so, but maybe it doesn't seem to be as much since people are so much more accessible via the internet.
Andy: Coming from a fan's perspective, if you're on the radio, doing videos and performing then you are a rock star.
If someone was prepared to put their money on the table and promote it properly, do you think there would still be a place for a well-run rock video channel...or has the internet killed that forever?
Alex: Absolutely. I’d love to see a full time Hard Rock and Metal channel. Look at the success of VH1 Classic. Rock fans are still hungry for this stuff, maybe more than ever.
Pete: Maybe, but at the same time it seems like one of the effects of the internet mentality is that with things like YouTube. you can watch whatever you want whenever you want. So many people would rather not sit through a bunch of videos they weren't all that thrilled with in the hopes that something they like will come on next. This is the age of instant gratification after all...
Andy: Oh yes definitely, it would and could be a huge success since most bands today are still shooting videos and the only showcase they have at this point is YouTube or on the artists website. If the station was run by real rock fans that were in charge of what was played, with some good promotion, I think it could be a huge success. The bottom line is people still enjoy watching rock videos.
The market for concert DVDs has boomed since there was no real video station out there. Sure you have VH1 Classic, and they do play Metal Mania, but after almost every video is a commercial and that just gets annoying. I'm a big fan of That Metal Show.................Eddie Trunk Is My Idol ;)
What is your take on piracy, and what do you think could be done to fight it?
Alex: I’m on the fence. Personally, I don’t mind if someone has a copy of Damage Control because a friend burned it for them. I’d prefer they bought it and have the artwork, but if they’re into the band now and would come see us live, then it’s a good thing. But I also understand that artists want to be compensated for their work and intellectual property. I’m not sure how to fight it. Maybe the answer is to stop fighting it and look for other ways to make money as a band.
Pete: I wish I knew what could be done to fight it. On the one hand you have the fact that maybe more people are listening to your music, and that's obviously not a bad thing. However, as a band if you're spending the money, not to mention the blood, sweat and tears to create something, and people are just stealing it, how long can you continue to put out new music? Some of the more disturbing things I hear are the excuses for why people download music; "The band's not making any money off this anyway" (wrong), "I'm not putting out money for a CD, what if I don't like it?" (excellent point, however, if you DO like it, maybe pony up the purchase price, so we can put out more), "The band makes all it's money touring anyway" (really? Maybe if you're Bon Jovi), "Blank CD's only cost $1, why the hell should I pay $10-20?" (yeah well, obviously our time is worth nothing, and rock stars like us get all our recording time and manufacturing for free).
Andy: Definitely copy guard the material and when you release a CD add something extra: a DVD, a bonus track, free fan club membership. Give the fans something extra.
If we accept that we can never eradicate piracy, how do you think musicians could use file sharing to benefit them?
Alex: Like I said, maybe the answer is to stop fighting it, to think creatively – video games, TV and movie soundtracks, merch through websites and live shows.
Pete: We already do some of that with making advance tracks from the album available prior to the release. Additionally you have to try to appeal to the people that will potentially buy the album, good packages w/DVD's, artwork, extended liner notes, etc. all help to sell your product. Keeping the price realistic is important as well.
Andy: It's a great tool for the unknown artist who is trying to gain exposure and in reality no matter what people are still gonna do it.
Do you think some bands have actually got exposure they otherwise wouldn’t have from programs like Napster and its more modern equivalents?
Alex: Absolutely. Any fan is a good fan as far as I’m concerned. I wouldn’t put a CD out and expect to make a living on it.
Pete: Absolutely, that is a plus.
Andy: Not really cause all you get is a name and a song and you don't even know if that is the artist playing the song. The artist's websites work much better for exposure.
Do you like the concept of last.fm and do you think more sites of that nature would benefit the industry?
Alex: I never heard of it before you mentioned it. I checked it out and Tango Down is on there. Yes, I think any vehicle to promote a band or artist is a good thing.
Pete: I do like Last.fm, I have an account there myself. I'm also a big fan of Pandora.com which I think is great for finding new bands I might not have heard of based on my listening habits.
Andy: I never heard of last.fm until now. I think it's great, any information you need is at your fingertips and streaming music as well as videos, check out last fm my friends!
Who or what is to blame for the present state of the rock music industry? Is it fans, labels, computers or something else?
Alex: I think it was several factors: greed and mismanagement in the music industry hitting head on with the advent of technology and file sharing.
Pete: I don't think you could really single out any one source for the way things are now, and even if you could I'm not sure how that would benefit me or the music industry.
Andy: It's the fans and the bands that are bringing real rock back to the forefront, the fans want it, and don't want that corporate watered down radio crap that is forced down our throats constantly. The people demand it and the bands bring it.
What is your actual opinion of the present state of the rock music industry? Is it really in a ‘state’ at all, or is it doing alright for itself?
Alex: From what I know, other than a few mega corporations, there are a healthy amount of small niche record labels and websites that cater to the Hard Rock and Metal fan. I acknowledge websites like yours that help keep the scene alive.
Pete: I think it's doing okay for itself quite honestly. There have been a ton of great releases over the last few years after a bit of a slump. Seems like people are starting to listen to music again, not to mention going out to see it from time to time. I've never been one of those to say things like "all the music today sounds the same, back in the (insert decade here), that's when all the good music came out!". I like a lot of the same stuff I liked back in the day, and I like a lot of new stuff too. I just like rock, what can I say? Additionally things like Guitar Hero and Rock Band have created a whole new generation of rockers, what's not to like?
Andy: I think its in great shape, look at who's touring this summer and that explains everything
What do you think of programs like American Idol and X-Factor? Would you like to see a proper rock/metal version of one of these shows, or should they all be killed off?
Alex: If it gives a talented person their big shot, then God bless them. I’ve been told plenty of times I should do it. Just chicken I guess. But I also think there’s no replacement for slogging it out in a sweaty, stinky bar to hone your craft as a musician and entertainer.
Pete: It might be interesting, but like any reality show it would be mostly scripted and heavily edited. That being said if it brought rock music more into the public eye it wouldn't be a bad thing.
Andy: It needs to be killed off, everything today is either a reality show or soon to be one, media overkill at its finest.
What bands have returned from the 1980s/1990s and had quality releases in the past couple of years?
Alex: Lots! Whitesnake, Dokken, Danger Danger, Scorpions, and Winger to name a few. Most of my favourites are out there still doing it.
Pete: To name a few off the top of my head, Whitesnake, Danger Danger, Scorpions, actually it's a pretty long list. I think a lot of these guys are really stepping it up a bit too. It's gotten to the point where I hear a new release is coming out by a classic artist and I feel like it has a good chance of being a worthwhile purchase for me. I probably wouldn't have said that a few years ago.
Andy: Great White, Danger Danger, Tesla, W.A.S.P., Whitesnake, Winger, Lynch Mob, Ace Frehley, House Of Lords, Keel, Dokken to name a few...
Are you surprised at the number of bands who are still going and still pumping out worthwhile material?
Alex: Not really surprised. Happy to see they’re still doing it, and in many cases at the top of their game.
Pete: No, but I am surprised by the overall quality of these releases, pleasantly surprised that is!
Andy: No, not at all; fans like all of us enjoy it and hope the trend continues.
What band from the past would you like to see back on stage or in the studio again?
Alex: Not sure. Like I said, most of my favourites are still at it.
Pete: Honestly it seems like most of the bands that I would have put on this list have already gotten back together and/or released new material. Other than that, it would just be impossible bands where key members have passed on, like Badlands or Ozzy with Randy Rhoads to name a couple that I never had a chance to see.
Andy: Wildside............they had an amazing disc called Under The Influence that came out in 1992, had a few hit singles and radio play. To see them in the studio and on tour again would make this fan real happy. I think its time for the original TNT to do the same...
Did the ‘Rock ‘n’ Roll Dream’ ever exist? If so, what is it, and do you musician types still get to partake in it?
Alex: If you mean the “rock n’ roll lifestyle, then yes.” I’ve attended a few post-show hotel room parties that were quite crazy and straight out of the 80s. Good fun.
Pete: I don't know, I guess it depends... I like to think so, I know I'm just having an absolute blast. To me the dream has always been about writing, recording, and playing on stage, giving it everything you've got for people that really appreciate it. I can't think of much else I'd rather do!
What is next for you as a musician? Where do you see your career heading?
Alex: Well, I just left Tango Down and I’m not sure yet. I’m taking some time to consider options and enjoy some more free time. But I have faith that when the time is right, I’ll meet some amazing musicians and get back at it.
Pete: I've done more in the last three years than I did in my entire music career prior to that. I've got a new album with FarCry (http://www.facebook.com/FarCryBand) on Kivel Records (http://www.kivelrecords.com/) coming out in June, some great gigs coming up like Melodic Rock Fest 2 in Elgin, IL (http://www.melodicrockfest.com/) and the Dakota Rock Fest in Sioux Falls, SD (http://www.dakotarockfest.com/) confirmed so far, with hopefully more to come. Other than that, I'm keeping the door open with a few potentially great projects coming up.
Anything else you would like to mention?
Alex: Thank you for interviewing us and the work you do on Rock Realms and helping to keep the rock scene alive. As a fan, I appreciate it. Also, if anyone wants to stay in touch with me, friend me on Facebook at http://www.facebook.com/people/Alex-Barbieri/1528378341#!/profile.php?id=1136132486 and http://www.myspace.com/emailalex.
Pete: I thank you for your time Jon, those were some great questions, and it's an honour to be able to share my opinion with your readers. Please feel free to stop by my Facebook page (http://www.facebook.com/BlueCharvel) and ask me anything I might have missed!
Andy: I'd like to mention an up and coming band out of Chicago Illinois called LOVEBLAST http://www.myspace.com/loveblastrock. It's best described as an in-your-face rock 'n' roll explosion. It's fun high energy rock 'n' roll, take a listen, you wont be disappointed.
Oh, and a plug for the excellent Wornstar Clothing - http://www.wornstar.com/. They provided the shirt in my photo.
A very special thank you to my friends Alex Barbieri and Pete Fry for letting me be a part of this round table chat, it was an honour and thank you Jon for making it all possible.
Thanks again to the guys.
